The Norman Mailer Anecdote will make its world premiere at the Bille Brown Theatre in May 2024, the playwrighting debut of award-winning Australian screenwriter Anthony Mullins. I sat down with the show’s director, Julian Curtis, to discuss the play’s pertinent themes, his directorial debut for the stage, and being the first show presented in Queensland Theatre’s DOOR 3 initiative.
Can you tell me a bit about yourself and your background, and about Big Scary Animal?
I’ve been acting for twenty years. I’d done some professional work in Brisbane, but my first show out of NIDA was with Queensland Theatre Company. Funnily enough, I was rehearsing the other day with this old pencil case, and I found a Queensland Theatre pencil from that first show I did, it had the old branding on it. I told everyone, and no one seemed to care in the room so maybe it’s just me [laughs] but I was like, wow, this feels so full circle.
I really like American plays, and so Big Scary Animal was something that came out of my love for that, a certain type of theatre that wasn’t really being done here as much, your Mamets and your Hares. Then I saw this play at the QPDA [Queensland Premiers Drama Award], and I beelined for Anthony and said I love it, I love it – what are you doing with it? Obviously, he wanted to see what happened with the mainstage companies, but when DOOR 3 came along he reached out to me. That was a year and a half later. He said, would you be interested? and I said yes! Let’s go! We had three weeks to put this together as an application, and it kind of fell into place that way. He’s been great, he’s in the room every day with us.
Is that a usual part of the process, to have a writer who is so hands on?
I think it is. He’s so passionate about the work and so excited.
The way I pitched DOOR 3 was, you’ve got to have people who know what they’re doing but, at the same time, we’re flexing in a different direction. I’ve never directed before. This is my first time, but I know how this machine goes because I’ve done 30+ shows. And [Anthony’s] a BAFTA-winning screenwriter but he’s never done a play before. So that’s been cool, to find that relationship in the room. He’s learning, and I’m learning. It’s a really terrific program, I feel very fortunate to have this opportunity.
How would you describe The Norman Mailer Anecdote?
At its core, it’s about a well-known writer who is hit with an historical sexual assault allegation that throws his family into a night of deconstruction. It’s such a hot-button play. I don’t really need to draw the obvious parallels, and I wouldn’t want to either, because it feels salacious to do so. Issues of consent, social media, cancellations, alcohol abuse…it’s all in there, but underneath it is actually the more pressing question of the image we need to put forth, out there, in order to survive this kind of world where we are really all under the microscope and there is, in my opinion, a lack of personal accountability. We’re running from accountability, because accountability in 2024 is so severe and a small action seems to be the same as a big action. We don’t have much nuance.
It’s certainly a big cultural conversation at the moment – how do you see The Norman Mailer Anecdote fitting into that conversation?
I don’t think I’ve seen a play succinctly tackle it, which is why I responded to this [play] so strongly. I mean, I’ve had the desire to direct, but I haven’t found a project that I’ve been willing to put life on the backburner and change focus…it’s a tremendous undertaking. When I heard [the play], I went, this is it! And I chased [Anthony] for it.
It’s a family that I recognise, the good and bad of this family. I love legal dramas, it’s my pet thing. For me, it’s an intellectual play, and that’s usually my entry point into my art. I’m a thinker, I like to think things through as opposed to feel things through. It just hit everything, this is the art that I want to go see. And if it didn’t win…how many runners up don’t get up? It’s cool to be behind the push to make this work. I know Anthony’s very grateful, and I’m grateful to him for trusting a newbie with it. Someone of his pedigree, it was a tremendous rubber stamp and gave me the confidence to step into the role.
[The play] is uncomfortable at times, because each character is fighting for their side of the story, and one of the sides of the story…isn’t great. But we go through it, and we explore that side with vigour and give a defence, because we should have our cages rattled in order to see the light. It’s Mamet, it’s Hare, it’s those playwrights that I love, and it feels like it lives on the same shelf as them.
It’s a now play, but it’s also hilarious, and I think that’s an important modus operandi for me – no matter how dark the material you’re dealing with, you’re not going to inspire conversation and important after-show chat if the show’s not a good time.
Do you have any particular hopes for how it will be received, or what kind of post-show conversations it might start?
I’m so not a fan of message theatre, it’s just not my thing. Who am I to tell anyone what they should think and feel? I think our job is to present humanity and then for the audience to go away and say, okay, what’s my takeaway? Hopefully they’re in line with my morality, but if they’re not, then that’s something to explore too, something to put under the microscope also.
The Noman Mailer Anecdote is the very first play, in the very first year, of DOOR 3. You mentioned pitching the play – what was the whole process like, and how has it been to work with Queensland Theatre in this capacity?
They’ve been great. It feels more like a grant, and while it might not be in money it’s in rehearsal rooms, in resources. There was a little bit of financial, but our finances really came from our sponsors, like Philip Bacon, who we had an existing relationship with. We didn’t have time to go for a grant so we had to really pool our experience, which might have helped position us as that first one as well.
It’s kind of good, because none of us have had time to get nervous and think about what you’ve just said [laughs]. We’ve just had to dive in deep and throw ourselves into the work and things have just organically been great. The Queensland Theatre element is good because they’re treating us like a mainstage production, with the expectations. And that’s awesome, because it’s an education, especially for some of our creative team where there are emerging artists, they’re being put through the process of having to prep as if it is a mainstage. The hope is that tomorrow we could all step into these positions on a bigger level and be okay, that’s how I see it.
And for you, this is your stage directing debut.
I’ve always done some coaching, but this is the first time putting together a story. We all have our red pen out sometimes, when we watch shows, and this is me putting my money where my mouth is. I’m the captain of the ship, and I’m really looking forward to showing this and I hope my taste lands [laughs]. That’s the test, isn’t it? There is a taste thing in this business, so we’ll see.
What has that transition been like for you, from being an actor in the room to being the captain of the ship now, as you said, making decisions and leading the process?
I’ve been working on Gaslight with Lee [Lewis], I was Toby’s understudy for the tour. I remember saying, at one point in the rehearsal process, “this is looking great!” And she said, “now you have to give it to them”.
You like to be in control as a director, and I’m getting that now. You are in control and then there’s a moment where it’s time – and this is kind of where I’m at in the process – now you give it to the actors. It’s like, you’ve crafted your journey with them and now it’s up to them, to feel it in their bones and run with it. That’s hard, I’m finding that hard to let go. But also, as an actor, I get all the ups and downs of the journey, so I think that’s helping me. I understand. If an actor’s having a day where they’re not getting it, I’ve had that day. I think that’s helped make this experience smooth.
But I’m loving it. I always say, acting is being the paint, and the writer and the director is the painter. So now I get to be the painter, and that’s cool.
You’ve just started working in the Diane Cilento Studio, where the show will be performed. Is that a big adjustment, coming out of a rehearsal room and into the performance space?
Yeah, in a good way. It feels real now. You’re in that space, vocally, you know where you have to be. When the set goes in, it’ll feel really real. It’s a really cool set, Maddy [Barlow, production designer] has done such a good job.
When it comes to the acting, that’s what I’m obsessed with because that’s my background. But when it comes to the music and the set, I trust my team. I trust your taste, go do it, you’re fine. They all know it better than I do. The tech side of it is something I’m learning as part of my development, so I’m learning and I’m wanting to learn from these creatives.
What’s been the biggest challenge and the biggest reward for you, working on this show?
I’m working with all the same people as I would as an actor, but as an actor you’re kind of…you’re not treated like a prince [laughs] but you’re gladwrapped a little bit. In this process, I’m having to work with everyone more directly, balancing personalities. In order to get the best out of someone you have to think from their perspective. As an actor, you’re the crazy eccentric one. It’s the interpersonal stuff that’s been challenging, but also a reward.
I’ve met new collaborators that I’m having such a great time with. That’s the reward, it’s the people. And I’m proud of it, even at this stage where it’s like, are the lines down? I’m proud of it, it’s a work that I stand behind with full throat. This is good work, in my opinion. It’s entertaining. We did a run just before I came here, and I was thoroughly entertained.
How do you know that humour, or being entertained, will translate to an audience?
You don’t. There’s a moment in Gaslight, where every time it happened we all roared with laughter but it never got a laugh [from the audience]. It’s not because it wasn’t funny, but we understood the text on such a deep level because we’d seen it twenty times. On a first view, you’re never going to have that level of insight, that’s just not possible. Now that we’re having this conversation I’m going to go back tomorrow and make sure I haven’t had any of those moments [laughs].
There’s a couple of moments where a character…there’s the line, and then I may have directed the actor to push the envelope of their opinion on the line, and it has made them feel like everyone’s going to hate them. And that’s okay, if at that moment you’re like “ugh, I can’t believe she just said that”. We’re seeing them in a private setting, where there’s no filter on opinions. Let’s see what they think. Is it redeemable? We’ll find out, at preview.
The Norman Mailer Anecdote will be performed from 3 – 18 May 2024 at the Diane Cilento Studio, Queensland Theatre, South Brisbane
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